The Cobia Fishing Phenomenon and Adapting to Evolving Oceanic Conditions

Hello and welcome everyone to another episode of the New York Fishing Podcast. My name is George Scaca and I am your host. So today we have a discussion on Cobia why they're here, how they got here and how to catch him. Now that they're around, i speak with Jimmy Furch Jr. He works or I don't know if he still does, but I think he does over at Bay Park, marietum. Whether he does or not. big shout out to those guys. They have always been big supporters of mine and my brother, who is no longer with us. So those folks over there, they were weighing in Cobia. I saw them. They were over like 70 pounds. I didn't even know they got that big. Sorry, i'm not educated on them. I'm always working on what we have here, but that is one heck of a fish. And I saw a photo after photo of fish that were weighed in at Bay Park And I'm sure it was happening all up and down the coast. So I figured, hey, let's take some time. We'll speak with someone who's been weighing these fish and he can tell us how they're being caught. And then we have an interview with the number one scientist I would say that's involved in this transition of fisheries that we're seeing. So listen in on the whole episode, don't forget to subscribe. And once again, here we go with the junior sharpie, future sharpie Jimmy Birch Jr. I'd like to welcome our guest somebody. I've always used the term future sharpie. He's kind of a sharpie already, but he's a definite future sharpie And he's a junior fisherman. He's lucky that he's got a great dad who takes a fishing, who's taught him fishing and who loves fishing, and his dad is a great guy. He's also a public servant And we appreciate he's a first responder in the city and we appreciate everything he does, and most of you folks would do him his whalehead right Whalehead, not whaleface right, it's whalehead Jimmy.

Whalehead, yeah, okay.

I hope you didn't pick that name out for him, did you?

No, it was his friends.

Okay, okay, so you work over Bay Park, marina, those guys over there have always been a huge supporter of mine. You know I started before you were born And I think they were there then. Yeah, they probably were For years. Yeah, they will always support his thing. My brother Phil, well before he passed on And I always appreciate everything they bring to the game. And now that you're working there, it's great And I wanted to talk to you. I saw you with a couple of Kobe and I know you're working at a place that's way ahead of a lot of Kobe, so I was wondering what are you guys looking for now? I mean, you know anglers in the sound. obviously We haven't seen any, but nothing's impossible. We do have tons of dolphin in the sound this year, which is weird, but I guess they come up that they followed a bait and they come later. And how do you target them? Take it one step at a time. When do you think you'll be hanging your first fish? Let me put it that way.

Right, so usually when all the warm water fish come around, when the water is the warmest, to say like mid-July. I mean, it's different every year. It seems to be getting earlier and earlier every year. Okay, but yeah, i would assume mid-July, when the bunker around, the fish are always on the bunker pods, usually Everything has been on the bunker All the big giant bluefin we've been seeing in shore, all the stripers now the live line bites, amazing, right. But yeah, all the Kobe have been on the bunker pods for the most part.

So now, when you say in a bunker pod so you know when we used to fish right Best of all, when I used to fish for when we do fish, right, best of all you know you get right on the pods you're kind of you're digging, you're casting in there. In some cases you're trying to feed a live one. So how are you targeting the Kobia and what types of rigs and tackle and stuff like that, how do you use it?

All right. So the main thing I use is just a bunker snagger with some heavy, heavy monolidre, because I there's a lot of sharks around, which is usually like the main issue when targeting them, like it'd be a lot easier to catch them if it weren't so many sharks which doesn't which is funny to say, being in New York but it's really a problem when you're fishing for them. Now You spend quite a quite a few dollars on bunker snaggers, right, when you go out for Kobia. But the thing is, if you don't want to lose as many bunker snaggers, you could use wire, and people say that you can catch Kobia on wire And I've heard of it being done before. But I definitely would think where I would say mono works better. Right, i like to use and what I caught my fish on was, i believe, 80 pound mono. It was. My dad had some old leader material in the garage and I found it and brought it with me just in case and down to the last couple of bunker snaggers and tied that on like about three or four foot of it and to a barrel swivel. I was using my 5000 vanford. It's a Shimano spinning reel and a 30 pound breed on there.

So these fish? are you looking for fish in the pond? Do you actually sight fish it? or you just drift in these bunker in the pod, or are you looking outside the pods for these fish?

You always want. So you always want to look for the fish and a lot of people do see them on top of the water. The difficult thing is they look just like sharks. So you got to, you got to kind of pick them up, but usually they're on top and in the side, on the sides of the bunker pods, and the sharks will cut through. You'll see the bunker make like they'll move around. You know, you see the videos of the sharks going through and the bunker will move around for them. So they're just moving through the bunker pod right The Cove. The Cove is, stay on the outside.

Okay, so now let's be clear now, how deep are you fishing?

It's really wherever the bunker pods are. I've heard of people catching them as far as three miles offshore and you know 80 feet of water, or in you know 2015 feet of water right, right.

So it's where they're on top of the bait, where it's just yes, just wherever the bait is, but it's basically an inch or fishery, yeah where we are.

It seems like it.

So. so tell me about a couple of those fish that were hung over there. last year I saw some pictures of some Kobe. I didn't even know that they grew that big, yeah. So what sizes are those things?

We started getting them in in. the first couple of fish we had weighed in were like record breaking We were. we thought they were insane They're. I think the first couple were like 50 and 60 pounds Right.

I saw those two Yeah.

Right Yeah, and people started one person weighed them in, one went weighed in the fish And then another person weighed one in And then it became a regular thing. They're like people were just weighing in Kobe all the time. Everyone wanted to go after them and the fish were getting bigger and bigger. We saw them up to like I want to say 75 pushing 80 pounds.

That is totally amazing. That is some fishery that a lot of people here in the South Shore you know they hear about it But they don't want to put in the time or the effort that it takes to catch a fish like that. You know they all feel you have to be lucky.

But yeah, everyone thinks it's just random luck that there happens to be a Kobe here.

Right, but you got to put a lot of little pieces together and to know where to look for them. How long did they stick around?

Do you know? I mean, we've only really had them the last two, maybe three years, yeah, and it seems that they're just here was as long as all the warm water fish are like. I think we they stopped getting weighed in Bay Park around. I mean September, early mid September.

Wow, they hang around. Yeah, they hung around for a while.

I would say August is was the heat of it, like it was. Every day. We'd get fish weighed in and it was all. Kobe, that's all I ever wanted to do. There was a bunker snagger shortage for all the bait and tackle shops in the area And I remember Mark Mark at Bay Park. He preordered like 300 of them. So he was, he was, so he was stocked up for the end of the season.

Well, that's great. See, that's what happens. You know you're, you're young, right? So you see all these strike bass and you know a lot of people take for granted all these fish that we have, but when I was your age they're like no strike bass. So so things change And right after this talk you and I have, i had spoken with someone that's actually in charge of Kobe at the Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission And he gives a good description about why those fish are here. And you know what we're seeing And obviously it's what we all know warmer, warming waters although you think you know there are deniers of it, but it is warming waters and bait. You know everything wants bait And we have all bait.

We have all bait, we have all the springing and everything, everything you see, oh, the fishing has really been amazing from it recently.

So this couple years? Yeah, that's, that's great, that's great. So. So let me ask you this So when are you looking for any certain tide? Do you like a ore, time of day or light or dusk? Do you know? have you seen any patterns, like, if you're in the shop and you're weighing them on, rainy days? Yeah, is there any way you can connect something? Because I know that's what I'd be doing. I'd be saying wait a minute, this guy's waiting this today. Let me check the weather, you know.

Yeah, no, definitely I wouldn't. I wouldn't say anything about the tide too much. I mean, if the fishing slow on one tide, the tide change usually turns it on. That's true. Right, A lot of fishing, but sunny days Sunny days, it's easier to see the cobia there on top more the bunker on top. The sunny days were always the better days. If it was a nice day out on the dock there'd be a lot of boats. It was always busy. There was always always fish being weighed in with all the commotion. It was definitely definitely sunny days. That's when I caught my land. That's usually when you hear like there was usually good days where fish would get. A bunch of fish would get weighed in in the day where it was sunny out and next day maybe it wasn't and there weren't any fish weighed in.

Yeah, well, hopefully we'll get to a point where we can target them with all the fish and all kinds of stuff, like they do right down south, although it is a big bait fish We down south also, i do know some people, some charter fishermen too, actually, that have used bucktails and shads and things like that to catch them. Oh, and it works.

Yeah, yeah, they've caught them on using that One guy I know. he's caught more cobia than anyone I've I've known before. His name's Ian. He would use blue claws, blue claw crabs, and he caught cobia after cobia after cobia. It's like clockwork. He could have been a commercial fisherman.

You know how? did I tell you I've never eaten one. I hear they taste pretty good. Oh man, I love, I love them. Did your dad let you at least taste some of them with your own fish?

Oh, the cobia, Yeah, yeah, he, he wouldn't even cut it, he wouldn't even cut it.

He's, he's really funny. Yeah, so you guys do a lot of fishing. Tell me a little bit about how often you fish.

I mean before I started working, when I all my all I did all summer I was out fish. I wasn't hanging out with my friends, i was pretty much just fishing. Yeah, tough life, i love it. Uh, would we would just fish and try every different thing we could possibly do in the twenty-three foot boat. Right, i would beg him to go farther and farther every time trying to do something else.

Yeah, i'm sure you would. I've seen you guys out at, uh, i think, mcallister or AB. I saw you out there somewhere. You know when I'm fishing out there. I'm not that familiar with the area, so, uh, i kind of I kind of never know where the LEP is taking me till we finally get there. But, uh, the fluke fishing out there is great, but I want to keep this to cobia, so so you're expecting them to come in any day. Well, i mean, it's been a little cool, but you know, who knows what what the ocean temperature is doing right now. Uh, so they should be coming in next month sometime right, or the end of this month.

Yeah, i would, i would assume. So. I mean, everything seems to be coming in earlier and earlier each year. I wouldn't be surprised if it came in then to this month or the beginning of next month.

Well, i tell you, what we'll be doing is definitely keeping an eye on Bay Park's fishing reports over there, definitely, and we'll be in touch with you, and I'd like to keep in touch with you during the course of the year, and we do. We do this, uh, a little bit more in in that you can introduce people to different types of fishing and it's good that right, um, people understand that they're all younger folks out there that want to get into this game, of course, and that's the thing that they are Yeah, that's uh, that's really good to know. So, okay, look, i appreciate your time on cobia. Um, i do hope to get mine this year. So you know, let me know if I'm going out. you see me going, throw me a hot tip, send me a text, something. I know you're not gonna, because you followed, kill you, but I'm gonna get one of those stuff because this year I am getting in cobia.

I got a lot of fun when you do it, oh my god.

Yeah, i want to do. They're a good fighting fish.

Oh yeah, he didn't know he was hooked when I had them until he was right next to the boat and just zoom woke up. I love when it happens.

I love when it happens when it's not a fish that I really don't want to drop. But when it's a fish I don't want to drop and it doesn't, oh my goodness, that's all of a sudden. It hurts to be mad at you, exactly So I had that happen to me This year on a freshwater fish, so I don't want to talk about it. This is basically salt water stuff right now. So all right, jimmy, we are going to speak, definitely during the course of the year. I'd love to get some updates from you on what's happening over there at a Bay Park, if I can help marking a gang at all through this. We do have a number of listeners and it's growing each episode, so pass along my thanks to everyone. Say hello to your dad. Keep up the good work, keep posting your photos. Look, spend some time on myanglercom. We miss you.

Yeah, I've been looking at the site recently.

Yeah, well, let me tell you it's going to start growing. We have a whole new beautiful site being built, but that's a surprise that that'll be coming out soon. But spend some time there, send your friends there And, again, say hello to your dad for me And I thank you so much for coming on, of course, and I will be sending you, or hopefully I'll be weighing in a Cobia at Bay Park All right, send me a text. Yeah, i sure will. All right, jim, good speaking with you and good fishing. We'll do this again very soon. Sure, i got to get out there, you got it. Thank you, buddy, you got it. Bye-bye, you have it, folks. Jimmy Furch Jr, a angler, and a good angler in his own right. I've seen him out there, deep water fluke, and I've seen many photos of some great fish that he's caught. The kid has learned a lot. It's pretty obvious this Cobia fishery is a site fishery. Every everything I read up and down the coast, they're targeting with live bait and it's a site fishery. It's not like you're going to go to the rip and you're going to find bass there. You're not going to find Cobia in the same spot. They're moving around with the bait, but there are a lot of fish being caught Now. With that said, things are changing. We could be in denial and say they are not. I don't know what's causing it. I don't pretend to have any idea what's causing it, but things are changing. They just are. We see it in the water temperatures. It can't be denied. So what's happening is we have a transition of fisheries. I've discussed this and I will continue to do so, as we have more and more of southern fisheries that are headed up into the New York bite area. This is happening consistently over the past couple of years. So I went straight to the top to find out what the scientific community and management community thinks is happening regarding this transition, and also there's an in-depth discussion on the Cobia itself. And get ready. They should be showing up soon. From what I hear, there are some bunkers down in Jersey on their way up. For some reason We're a little thin on bunker right now, but hopefully that'll change As soon as they come and you get the bass on them. You know that the Cobia are going to be there this year in better numbers. So listen, in a way, jimmy fished it. There are other tactics, obviously. You know I've seen some folks that kind of fish them like they're fishing a bass. They'll hook it up as a light bunker rig and swim it back out, and they do work. They also mentioned about fishing on the outskirts of the bunker schools. So look, it's just one of those fisheries that you're going to have to be in the right place at the right time. But if you are, make sure you're ready. It's like you got to be ready for it Because you know if you're not ready it's going to happen. So you be ready. And if you see them, cash in on them. I hear they're a good fighting fish and excellent eating fish And obviously, just as us recreational anglers always do, you know, just take what you're going to eat And you can release the rest. And now for my interview. I'm in line with Dr Dan Creer. He's a marine ecologist studying the effects of the changing environment on marine species and fisheries. And first, dan, i'd like to welcome you to the show. You know you are involved in something that really has my interest and things that are happening right now. You know I'm a believer that there's a lot going on under the water right now And we're in this transition that you know. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm seeing a lot of things And I kind of wanted to get your take on it. And specifically, maybe we could start out with this new fishery that we have. I call the Kobea fishery. I mean, we have had actually regulations in place for this fishery for the longest time, but I used to wonder why. Now I know I mean we had a lot of big Kobea come aboard. So again, welcome to the show, dan. Oh, thank you for having me. This was great. So what are your thoughts on the fact that we now have a targeted fishery directed at Kobea? Like? it's like the first time ever. I've been doing this for 35 years now, so I know for a fact that you can count on one hand the time there was a 50-pound Kobea weight.

Right, right, yeah, it's definitely going to continue as well. Because of the continuously warming waters And it may not happen every single year, but on a year's only have warmer temperatures or warmer waters that these species are going to, especially including Kobea, are going to continue to shift further north, especially during the summertime, and the shallow areas right around Long Island are nice and right around their sweet spot and the temperatures that they like. So I'm not surprised at all. I'm not surprised that you're seeing it more often, and some of the work that I've done I showed that during warmer years, kobea are further north. During cooler years they're not as far north And as you get further into the future and we still have our continued trend of warming we are going to continue to see Kobea more and more often be found further north up in New York and New Jersey.

Yeah, so now what about the fact? See, i've been thinking that, ok, it's warming, the fish are coming up, and when they get here in New York, we have these great protections in place for our manhading and bunker fisheries, like none of the reduction fleets are allowed in our waters at all. So we've been getting tons and tons of bait, to the point that humpbacks are 30 yards off the beach And so there's a ton of bait in there, and I'm wondering how much that plays into it.

Yeah, they are definitely, because so Kobea are generalist feeders, which means that they eat a lot of different types of species. And so what makes that nice for them is that they can move into new places and still find food, luckily for them also. Manhading are also found in off of Virginia and North Carolina and whatnot, where they are known to reside as well, and that's the primary species that Kobea feed on. So that could definitely direct maybe locally where they are Within or, i guess, off of Connecticut or New York or New Jersey. But what may push them further north? that further distance can likely be the warming waters, and in addition, those warmer waters could be pushing manhading further north. So for a given few weeks or for a given month, as they're following the localized warming that's happening throughout the summer. So it definitely varies. They're very driven by food right, and they're going to follow fish both fish So it's a little hard to feed that apart, whether it's temperature or prey or both, and my guess is that it's probably a combination of both And temperature is affecting both. The prey, like manhading and Kobea.

OK, is there a directed commercial fishery with Kobea? Because I don't recall ever singing it in a seafood store. But I'm just curious if you know if there's a directed commercial fishery.

Yes, it is, but it's very, very small. I can't remember the quota off the top of my head, but it's very, very, very, or the percent of the quota. It's less than 5%. The quota is allocated for commercial, so the vast, vast majority is allocated just for recreational, and so sometimes you'll see them as like a specialty item at a restaurant, but yeah, for the most part you're not going to see them in the supermarket.

Yeah, because from everything I hear, i haven't had any yet, but I hear it's a pretty good eating fish. And that always scares me. Oh, you haven't? No, i haven't, i want to catch the one that I eat. So that's a problem. I haven't been in the right place at the right time yet, but I will. And but that always frightens me, you know, because every fish that tastes really good, you know it's got a bounty on its head. So that's why I asked that question, you know. You know we eat, we love fish, you know. So Americans love to eat fish, and a fish like that, i mean, you know, right now, a live black fish, believe it or not. In New York it's illegal, but they're doing, but it happens, and they're selling live black fish for $25 a pound. So you get it. Whoever thought that would happen? right, no one. So you know. so I'm just bringing it up and trying to nip it in the bud, you know So. So now, what about these spawning habits? Where? where those fish spawned, you know?

Yeah, so the major spawning area, especially for the cobia that used the more northern parts of the Atlantic, is Chesney Bay. That's their biggest spawning ground. They, both males and females, come in there during during late spring, early summer, spawn and they can spawn continuously throughout the summertime And then after the summer they'll leave And for some reason sometimes in the middle of the summer some individuals will shoot further north, just like that. They might come and go up to Long Island off from New Jersey, off from Delaware and Maryland, but during the spawning times it is well known that it occurs in Chesney Bay. There have been some hypotheses out there that they that they might spawn offshore, offshore of Virginia and offshore of Maryland and Delaware, but that is not as well understood. And then there's also spawning off of South Carolina as well, in some of the estuaries there. But primarily the individuals that you guys are interacting with up in New York are lately from the, the group that spawned Chesney Bay.

Okay, so that tells me that if they're spawning in Chesney Bay, i mean we have the same conditions in the Hudson River. I mean we have the second largest striped bass fishery you know reproduces, second amount behind Chesapeake for striped bass, and almost seems like they're spawning around the same exact time as a striped bass. So I'm thinking that maybe we'll see I don't know, you never know could see resident population.

Yeah, and so I know striped bass spawn on a little bit more fresher waters, so Kobia will still spawn in, and pretty saline waters, probably between like 15, which on the map is very low and 15 parts per thousand, all the way up to ocean ocean, which is around 35 parts per thousand personally. So so, yeah, obviously there's. There's a lot of other conditions that dictate what makes a good habitat for fish to spawn in And for Kobia. We are still trying to figure that out. That's something that may be linked to if we may or may not see Kobia spawning happening in areas further north, such as Delaware Bay or Long Island Sound and whatnot, or New York Bight, that those are areas that potentially, given the temperatures, could be suitable for spawning. But there are other attributes or features that are important as well for spawning or for successful spawning. So whether it ends up happening or not, we'll have to wait and see. But as they start to use more and more area up there or more and more habitat up there for a longer period of time, i wouldn't be surprised.

Okay. So let's for a moment switch species here and jump over to tuna. So in the last few years we've had a really good inshore bite on both yellow fin and blue fin. When I say inshore, you know 20 miles, and I was wondering, you know? I mean, you think those fish are moving in, because I don't think the Gulf Stream came in that far I was, i was watching it, but you think maybe it's due to the warm waters that those fish are coming in, or, you know, i've seen this in the past. So I really don't think that there's a connection. But I'm curious what you guys are saying.

Yeah, i think the best guess that that that we think it's causing this is probably like that they're following those large men in schools and that are that are that are occurring further inshore. That's probably driving the two distributions more more right? Yeah, so I agree with you there.

Okay, so do you feel the I mean we. you know we're seeing some really good seasons. Do you know how Noah feels about the stock and the biomass and all the fishery For which species? Yellow, blue and blue?

Yeah, so the the West Atlantic Lupin tuna fishery is is very well sustainable or is very well sustainable. There's been a lot of work done by by no fisheries to improve the populations for, especially for, especially western blue and tuna, and the elephant tuna as well has has improved as well. But Yeah, so so far they they are. they are both both very sustainable fisheries. So we encourage you to to eat local, you know, and support US caught fisheries for sure.

Absolutely So the give me a general outlook for what you see happening. You know I'm of the belief as we discussed the warfare for a minute that we're in the middle of a huge transition, that things are happening underneath the water that you know we can't see what's happening. So you know, like you know, like you said before, you know the Kobe may be spawning offshore. You know I'm an advisor on the weekfish board And I was shocked to find out a couple months ago that there are weekfish being caught like way offshore in winter. So like I never even knew they were out there, you know so. So here we are. We're experiencing like crazy stuff, like we used to have when a flounder you could think about, in them you could macro, would run through the sound and for a couple weeks, and we had Tommy Cod, we had all these different fisheries. Yet there's a lot that we have that we didn't have. So, for example, sea bass have been phenomenal. The fluke fishery is is hanging in there. It's still hanging tough. I mean that wasn't really around that much. You know, back in the late, i'm gonna say early 80s, i'm sure my age you so you know. So we see this huge change And then we have all the lobster and long Island sound die And they literally died. There's not a lobster in the sound. I mean it's exaggerate. I mean you may see a lobster here or there, but it's it's. They're all gone. And, by the way, we have an estimated million ghost pots laying in the middle of the sound right now. So, so, and you know, it's funny, not that it's funny, but it's ironic that a lot of these folks that efficient, that send down video cameras you almost always see a ghost pot when they're in the sound. I mean, every shot I see one back there. So they're all over the place. But what do you think is happening? And or what is happening That's that's causing this change.

Yes, i think again, a lot of it is is ocean conditions changing Basically? we have have just continued warming oceans right from from climate change, and so the in the Gulf Stream is shifting northward, and the Labrador Current, which comes down south and inshore from basically Canada That's what keeps the coastline up in New England and whatnot And north of Hatteras cool, the Labrador Current That is, that is weakening And and so a combination of those, those things are contributing to species just shifting further north to their sweet spots. Right, so in for for given species there's a range of temperatures that they prefer to be in, right, and if that, if that range is, or if those conditions are down off of Virginia one year and then, and then all of a sudden, in whatever 20 years from now, those conditions are now off of New York, that those species are going to follow those conditions, given that, as long as you know, there's food there, right, and so. So temperature is a major driver physiologically for a larger, for a lot of marine species. There are other conditions as well that are important, like salinity and the amount of oxygen in the water. But temperature is a really known strong driver dictating where species go.

And we could expect to see this continue. I mean, actually it's been happening, you know, over time, But but now we're all realizing what has been happening and why it's been happening. I mean, you know, winter flounder. everybody wants to know why we can't. There are no winter flounder inshore yet the offshore fisheries loaded. So I'm thinking they wanted to, just got to want them, you know, and they moved out. not that we killed them all, So so I'm going to ask you I don't know if this is in your, in your wheelhouse, so to speak but do you have any opinion on what's happening with the whales that are washing up on on the Jersey Shore? I know it's a touchy subject because of the green energy and all that stuff, but I'm wondering if, if you're aware of what's going on and have a have an opinion.

Yeah, i only slightly aware of it. Unfortunately the marine mammal side is a little bit outside my my expertise So it's hard for me to comment too much on on that. But I am aware I've seen, i've read some stories in the scene pictures Absolutely, but I'm not fully aware of what's driving that.

Okay, so the other one that you cover, or you cover in shark too, right? Yeah, obviously, you know we love to make a shark in New York And I know it's totally off base, but you know how, how healthy is that fishery, that that's an amazing, freaking fish, you know. So I'm curious as to what, what you guys, how you feel the overall biomass is doing.

Well, so it's that it is. Oh, it is tough because it's the internationally managed species, right? It's managed by eye cat, right, and so so they're there there have been declines, But we're looking at it from the the entire Atlantic or North Atlantic population. And so and some kind of off of some countries some countries we may see we've seen some declines, but off of others that may not be the case. And so I know with, with eye cat eventually, all the countries that came to an agreement that that we need to be more cautious with makeup, with, with the worry that we want to make sure that the stock is able to be filled. So I, so I'm not part of the of that, of that conversation. I'm not, i don't work with the international side with eye cat But, but with my understanding, is that they I think there's this extreme caution, given how much they interact with fisheries and also the life histories of maple sharks, because they take a long time to reach maturity. They don't have very, very many young pups at once. And and and they take a long time to grow, and so they are vulnerable to two fisheries, all kinds of fisheries. So so there are reasons why the government and the international community is being cautious there.

Okay, yeah, we all want to protect the mighty Mako. I had a big one once when I was a kid. If I had to do all of, i definitely release that fish. I was like 600 pounds. But in any case, it is what it is And we have to move on to whatever species that we can find, whatever comes up our way. So, and you know, look, i'm just trying to bring out the fact that, yes, things are changing, but it's not bad, you know, it's just changing. My guess is we're going to see black drum in our area soon. We're already kind of seeing some small ones around And I think we're going to have a lot more black drum soon, but we'll see.

So yeah, i think, i think it's. I think it's safe to say that you can eat, like you should expect to see, especially during warm years, some unique species being found further north. We've experienced that in Chesapeake Bay as well, with with species coming like top full species that end up like randomly appearing in our species. They may be caught in Gulfstream, you know, and and and fall the warm water you know into the, into the bay. But but yeah, so I think it's going to continue And yeah, i'm not surprised It's probably going to continue at at a faster rate as well, but or more at a higher recurring rate.

I get it. Well, look, i truly appreciate this interview and your time. I'm going to keep your number and email because something tells me we're going to be talking again pretty soon, so is there anything else that you can? you'd like to inform our listeners about anything?

Oh man, i what I think. I think you got to get prepared to. You know, buy your bucktails and in your cacti rods and towers, you know, and, and, and hopefully you're able to catch some cobi, because they are an awesome fish to catch and an awesome fish to eat, and currently they are. They are sustainable and so if you get out there and then catch them, i hope you'll be able to and enjoy it.

So do you actually fish for them, you yourself?

So when I was a PhD student at the Virginia Institute of Marine Science, or WIMS for short, that's right off of trustee bay And so I worked with fishermen a lot to tag them, and also I've brought them back to BIMS and I did some live experiments on them. So fishermen helped a lot. The recreational community helped a lot on collecting my animals, but I also caught some myself. We had our own vessel and then we had a tower on it, and so once I learned how to fish for them properly, we got not as good as fishermen, but we got all right. We did our fishing with catching Cobia on our own and tagging them and releasing them.

That's great. That is great because the guys that had them they were just outside of the bunker schools kind of running with them, but they had to catch one that wasn't actively feeding. But those ones, those were the ones that they were getting them on. They would throw a bunk around in front of it and, provided it wasn't in the middle of the school, that's how they were catching them. So I guess it won't be too long before we have a mandatory circle hook on them. I don't know, i hope not.

Yeah, yeah, yes, and I know from my research some of the models that I created have predicted that over in the next 20 to 40 years that the best habitat for Cobia in the summertime so thermally the best habitat is off of New Jersey. It'll be more, it'll be the best suitable habitat will be off of New. The most, i guess I should say the highest percentage of suitable habitat will occur off of New Jersey compared to anywhere else of the Atlantic in the summertime, and so it's only going to continue to, or the speed of the land continues to slowly push up. They may not be readily in New York all the time, but I think those instances are going to continue to increase, and, yes, 20 to 40 years in the future, and I wouldn't be surprised if you see them every summer on a reliable basis.

All right, Great Again. Look, then, I really appreciate you doing the interview and we're going to do another one in the future And keep up the good work there. We appreciate it. Like I said, there's a lot of people listening to this thing right now that they I don't know what it is, they don't want to accept it. Things are changing even though they are right before their eyes, So things like this help educate folks And I hope I mean look, there's nothing we could do about it. Really, It is good, It is what it's going to be And you know, as a world or as a nation, we all got to try and slow it down, But I don't see that happening anytime soon.

So Yeah, and at this point, the ocean. you know the ocean takes a long time to change, right? And so we can make changes, you know, and improvements to lower our greenhouse gas emissions and our reliance on fossil fuels, But that doesn't mean that well, regardless it's so going. There's a lot of inertia right that that a warming that's going to continue to happen before we start to see any, i guess, lessening of the warming effect, And that's just in the air.

If you don't, if you look into the water.

It's even slower right. So these species are going to be transitioning further north for for them for decades and decades and decades to come, regardless of how much we do at that time to control greenhouse gas emissions. So that means that fishermen need to adapt, that means that managers need to adapt, that means scientists need to adapt, and so that's going to happen regardless. And you're going to see new species and you're going to might lose some species, and that's just the way it is. And, like I said, everyone's going to have to learn to adapt, just like these fish are.

Right. Well, you know what It's the way I see it's an excuse to buy different tackle. Okay, so now I have to tackle just for cobia. That's how we are. You got some for flukes type as whatever it is. So, yeah, i'm loving it actually.

So you can take advantage of the new situation that you know or the new species that are there. That can be exciting.

Well, that's exactly what we're all doing. So again, dan, i appreciate it. We will talk again soon And thanks again for doing this interview Awesome, thank you for having me.

I really appreciate it.

Okay, thank you Have it. folks. I hope you enjoyed that as much as I did. Please subscribe to this podcast. We're getting more and more listeners every single week. It's very simple You get. All you have to do is say, hey, siri, play the New York fishing podcast. Or hey, google, play the New York fishing podcast, or whatever it is Alexa or Google device at home or any telephone you have, so be sure to tune in. I'm going to try to bring you information that you're not going to find anywhere else And I know some of it sounds boring And it's actually gets that way sometimes with me but I'm going to bring you the facts. I'm not making up stuff. Every single thing I say is a fact, or at least I fact checked it. Hopefully what I checked was real, but I try to deliver, and I try hard to deliver the truth and the facts, and so please subscribe to this. More listeners turns into more strength, and that's what we need right now. We need unity. I believe we all unified, but we're kind of unified apart, which is something you know social media brought to the scene. Anyhow, subscribe to this podcast. Remember I'm doing this for 35 years, i know what I'm talking about And you want to be in on what I know As the next episode, which I may just do right after this one, we'll tell you all about what's going to be in your New York State fishing license, which you will have in 2004, 24. Don't bother to fight it, it's done. We just got to see what we get out of this thing, and they all baiting us with a lot of stuff. So watch out for that podcast. Make sure you subscribe. It means a lot. The more subscribers, the more people understand that I'm probably speaking for a lot of people, a lot of people on both sides the industry and the recreational angler And, most importantly, the conservation of the fishery. So please subscribe. Thanks for tuning in And I'll be right back at you with all the license information that I have, which is fact. It's not made up, it's not done yet, but I got all the dates and all the figures, so we're going to do that right after this. Thanks again, everyone. Get out there tight lines. I don't have to tell you the fishing is really good.