A Journey through Saltwater Licenses, Striped Bass News, and Shark Fishing

Hello and welcome all to another episode of the New York Fishing Podcast. My name is George Gaca and I will be your host. I'd like to start out by thanking all my friends at NewYorkAnglercom for the fine wishes for my 68th birthday the other day. So thank you all and I appreciate everyone's support. So, as always, there's something always on the horizon, so I do want to mention three separate issues that are on the plate. There's always something going on regarding fisheries regulations. It's always been that way. I'm around this thing 35 years and it truly I don't know it changes. So, and right now I'm concerned with what I see coming out of the DEC on this land-based shark fishing regulation. There's also news on the striped bass front, and we have more saltwater fishing license news for you. So, for those of you that aren't aware, the state is about ready to get out a survey on what you would like to see them spend the money on that they're going to raise by charging us for a fishing license. I personally am opposed to it, but I always have been. I kind of just never trust where the money's going to go. But I'm not here to influence you in any way, manner or form. This is a decision you're going to have to make. The one thing I do ask is that you dig deep into the money and think about the one. I mean, there's quite a few things in there that bother me, but one of the biggest things is requiring the money from that fund to pay for DEC law enforcement. I don't see why recreational anglers, or anyone for that matter, should pay for any type of enforcement. I want to see triple the enforcement out there. I really do, but I don't want to. Why should we pay for it? They're not just out there checking recreational fishermen. So just please think about that. I'm going to get more into that. You know there's other issues boat ramps. Are we the only ones that are using boat ramps? There are some good things in there. I love the idea of a fishing pier. I know I keep saying it, but why are there these gorgeous ocean fishing piers up and down the coast? And here we are in one of the greatest fishing spots of the world with an opportunity to open the eyes of many anglers and give them the opportunity to fish off an ocean pier. I don't know why we don't have one. I'm not saying, hey, let's get a license so we can have a pier. But what I am saying is, when I look at the numbers, it's like half of the money is going to go towards enforcement. So I mean, look, I could be wrong about that, it could be more, it could be less. I guess we'll see as it comes out. But watch for the survey. It's probably going to be out in another week or two. I do know that it's almost in the budget. It's been talked about that much and they do want it and I'm afraid that it is going to happen. A lot of people say, hey, why don't you? Guys should pay. Everybody else pays, we do pay. We pay 10% in excess tax for Wallop Bro on everything you buy. You probably don't know that, but when you buy a $200 real, it's really only $180 bucks. You're paying the rest as a tax. So we do, we do pay. Not to mention we drum up billions and billions of dollars. Oh, look, sounds like I'm talking out of it. I guess I kind of am, but I'm not trying to do that. I want you to make sure you look at the survey and then think about it, think about everything. Is it fair? What is it fair to spend the money on? What's fair what's important to you and I'd like to point out. Well, I'm going to do that at another time. The other news is Stripe Bass, the Stripe Bass board. It looks like they're going to hold strong with what they have in place now for next year. I mean, this is premature. They haven't said it, but it's been floated. I don't know, is it just me? But how could we be fishing one year class over two years? How does that work? You've got to be fishing two year classes, that other year class coming up. What was it? 2010,? Something that's the one we're going to be whacking on now. I don't get it. So that's the other thing. But the big issue in my mind right now and it is a huge issue is the state recommendations on land-based shark fishing. Now, I've got to tell you I've never done this. I don't know a heck of a lot about it. The one thing I do know is people that do it love it, and when I see photos, videos, when I hear about it, when I meet the people, I know these people are caring for those fish as well as anyone. So I started looking into this whole thing and the biggest issue I have is there's no one saying, okay, we're doing this to save this and we're doing that to save that, and we have evidence that there's a bycatch that's happening or the fish have float north dead. I mean, obviously we're not seeing the fish, we don't see the sharks come floating up on shore. Does that mean anything? I don't know. But if it was that bad, I'm guessing you'd hear something or see something, rather. But when you look at this thing, you take it from a bird's eye view and you look down and you just listen to what they're saying. You can't use a drone to drop a bait. Why is that? Why can't they use a drone? You can't use. You have to use spinning tackle because you have to cast. You're not going to be casting anything too far on a pen, 80 or 50. I don't even know what you guys use. You can't drop a bait on a kayak. Why? Why is this? Did the government come down and say, hey, you guys got this huge problem? Got a couple of hundred people that are catching and releasing sharks from the beach, that are destroying the fishery, while in the meantime there's miles and miles of long lines killing these sharks every day of the week. So I feel like there's no one to look again. Show me what you're doing. Show me what you're trying to say. Don't tell me that the guy in a boat can use a drone. A guy in a boat could do whatever he wants. The guy in a boat is not going to have a hook restriction, which makes no sense. You know they. I listened in on this hearing there was the other night and I was really excited to see and hear a group of anglers that they obviously were on the same page. They knew each other, but they know the fishery and you know these are the people that are doing it. And you know they brought up so many facts and I mean, look, does it make sense to force them to use light tackle? I, you know it's. It's. You're literally trying to reduce the number of sharks they can catch, period. And I hope that's not because of the recent shark attacks, because everyone knows that has nothing to do with it. But you can't help but think that. So, as an angler, I'm going to get back to this. We have rights and, first of all, the shark fishery is managed on a federal level. So I don't know why. I know, yes, we could put in regs and this and that, but I don't know why we're doing this. I did a lot of digging and I did find a study. It wasn't a lot of sharks, and the every bull and tiger and some type of brown or whatever was Sambo shark. They all lived, every single one of them. The few that died were spinner sharks. Now, that's the only study I could find. Now this is in Texas, where they're doing it year round in much warmer waters. So why are we doing this? That's what I want to know. We are recreational fishermen. These guys are out there. You know, it's their passion. They care about the life of the fish more than most people. So why are we going to stop this? You know, and let's think about the guy that can't afford to charter a boat for a couple of thousand dollars because that's what it is Between 1500 and 2500 to go shark fishing. Not many people can afford that. So we're going to take this shark opportunity away from these people altogether. Not to mention, a lot of people don't want to go offshore. They'll get seasick. Why are we stopping them from doing this? Why are we forcing a minimum size, a maximum size, rather, on the leader In Florida. They have a minimum size. On the leader In Florida they have a minimum size on the hook. Who ever heard of a maximum size on a hook? Who's? I've never heard of that and it just doesn't make sense. It makes you believe that hook is going down and going to gut that fish, but it's almost like you're hoping that small hook won't hook the fish so you don't catch them. That's what I see. I could be wrong, but I see this as a infringement on our rights, recreational fishermen's rights. Who are they to tell us how far we could send a bait? Think about that for a minute. What's going to happen? The next thing they're going to do, they're going to tell you hey, sorry, no, live scanners. I mean, that's so-and-a-lot of stuff works too well. You're going to be able to catch too many fish with that. You're not going to be able to use that. I mean, think about it. That's what they're doing Now. I don't know why they can't sit down and talk to these guys. They claim there are representatives out there in organizations that truly I'm not trying to knock anybody, but come on, they don't hold meetings. I mean, when we had organizations, we'd have 100 people at a meeting. That's not happening anymore. And yet they're out there and quoted in the documentation as supporting it. Nobody's going to tell you why they support it, because most of those people that support it, there's a certain amount of surf fishermen that can't stand this shark fishery. We get that, but years ago you stuck together, that's what you did, but they're not doing that right now. So just think about what they're doing, what they're saying. It's so obvious. They don't want you to bring a shark on the beach. Why is that, and isn't there another way? I mean, look, if it is because they don't want to frighten beachgoers, maybe they can work something out. And when there's no life God there, they could fish. People aren't supposed to be in the water anyway. So, look, I have never, ever seen a regulation come out like out of the blue for no reason whatsoever. Federal government's not doing it. Florida does it totally different. They do it year round. I kind of want to go with what they're doing. Why do we think our idea of fighting the fish longer, using the smaller hook, not being able to use a drone, I mean come on. Why do you think that's going to be better for the shark? It's not Because the few fish that they are going to get in are going to be so tired and so shot from that fight that they're going to die. And please stop worrying about taking the shark out for a photo please, because we all know next we're going to hear you can take a striped bass out of the water for a picture. That's coming. So I have a guest that I would like you, like you all, listen in on. He knows a lot more about this shark fishery. You know land-based shark fishery than I do, and I heard him the other day. He was very well spoken at the hearing which, by the way, I wasn't used to as I go to a lot of these hearings and, oh man, I think these video things are much better idea. But yeah, he did kind of explain a lot of things that I wanted to hear. I'd like to welcome our guest, anthony Fiorello. He is a surf fisherman who has spent some time targeting sharks along the beach and I heard him the other night. He was accompanied by a number of folks that brought across some really good points regarding these current regulations that are being proposed. So, anthony, I'd like to grasp, or capture the excitement of this fishery and how you got involved and where you're at now.

Well, I'm three, 54 and about three or four months and I have been fishing for now probably close to 50 years. I got my first fish very young in a local lake in Queens, New York, and that really set me off on a lifetime of fishing and fishing and since then I've had fish much of New York and I have enjoyed this state and what the state has to offer in fishing and I have really introduced my young sons we refer to ourselves as the Three Amigo Fish Club and my two sons, 10 and seven, are average fishermen and we enjoy it. I really want to pass things along to them, as I think most parents, dads who might be sportsmen like, particularly with the outdoors. This is what we want to do and we're well on our way to be in handcuffed by the state.

So let me ask you this so the first time you take your son fishing and you hook up on a shark and you bring it up the beach, bring it up on the beach what was that like and what was that feeling like? And I don't know too many kids that have witnessed that and I'm curious of the. To me this is just a wonderful introductory fishery and I'm wondering what it was like and what it's like to be as lucky as you to be able to fish with these sons like that.

Well, it's pretty exciting For one when you're fishing and, like most shore based anglers, know there's a little bit of pot luck involved and you know you're out there on the best days and the best times. You really don't know what's happening with that bait that's down there. And it is exciting when the fish is within range and it's in a roll or wave and you can see that thin, you know, and that's when the kids go wild and you'll hear them yell shark instead of stingray. And then the fish comes to the shore and it's an incredible, incredible feeling to see this creature come out of the water and you know you have the utmost respect for it and an instant bond is created between you and the fish and we are really just get the hook out, get the picture and get them right back in there where he belongs. It's really an incredible, incredible feeling. My kids they've done pretty well from the beach. They like their bass, their fluke, but he's got a dusky. We got a big surprise, a black tip last week and they've got loads of sand sharks, you know, to their roll, but each and every one of them. It's incredibly, incredibly exciting.

Yeah, so that's the way I see the fishery. Now, you know, there's new regulations which are being proposed. I noticed that a lot of folks that spoke at the hearing the other night were talking about the Florida educational program, and I am a huge proponent of educating anglers. I truly believe that they want to learn, and you know, since then I looked into it and it's definitely something New York should have. The other things I looked into, you know, florida is a year round shark fishery. Right, they've been doing this for a very long time and when I look at their eggs they're almost like opposite. They have what's being proposed. They have a four foot minimum length on the leader, whereas New York is talking about one foot. And also the fact that you can't, you know, drop the bait will force you to use lighter tackle. You know meaning spinning tackle, you know so it's hard to gauge what the DEC is trying to gain here, but what would be your take on those proposals?

Well, for one. You know from the very beginning, in every aspect of our lives, personal or professional education goes a long way. You know, it's easy you get a guy fish, he eats for a day. You teach a guy to fish, he's for a lifetime. If you teach people and you show them and you instruct them, you know they feel like they're part of something in a bigger scale. You know, uh, now, with respect to florida, I think that they're, they're on the right track. Uh, they use heavier gear because they are concerned about the survivability of the fish post catch. Uh, what new york is trying to do is to try to lighten the tackle. So I think that the fish doesn't really. I have a chance to come to shore and it's not. If it does, it's going to be a much longer fight. It's really going to exhaust the fish. I I'm not so certain that that is going to work out. I, if you can use to me and I'm not the only one that the greater concern here is the amount of shark sightings, and I think they're trying to correlate that to the few guys that are on the beach. You know, fishing with bunker chunks, that we're the ones attracting them, and I think these regs are being put in place to make it nearly impossible to try to catch a shark will be such a deterrent that the average fisherman just says you know, I'm not even a bother yeah, I think you know I think I think the average, I think you know more. I would say that just about everybody that attended uh that they dc uh event is aware of that. I, I think we it, that's it. That's the elephant in the room that no one really wants to talk about any distance shark sightings and the dc is under pressure from people up above saying listen, uh, we gotta do something. What can we do?

I think I would like to be. You know, I got to go and I got sad, but I kind of agree with you, and the main reason is no one's telling us what, why they're doing it. No one, not a single well person, has said why explain that? They haven't said they're trying to save this thing. I don't know the one line that's gas me. As they say they want to be able to make it easier to enforce the regulations. I don't get that.

I don't get the whole thing I, I don't get that either on. You know, make it easier to enforce the regulation. It would suggest that they're, you know they're going to be walking the beach measuring hook sizes for one. You know you don't want me, I don't target a particular fish. You know I, like many people said, I got to fish for what the, the ocean will provide. You know, I think it's wrong, uh, that that they're trying to do this to us. It didn't end the, if I, if I have read you know what the dc wants to do. They could clearly stipulate does not affect the folks fishing from a vessel. So you know, you have a guy in a boat. He has the latest technologies. He could see fish in the water, he has the most equipment because he can store it. Uh, he has the greater uh ability to traverse a bigger area. Uh, he's not doing anything to this, uh, this shark issue that we have. But it is the poor guy on the beach with one pole and one bag of bait. He's the one doing this. I don't think so I. I I think it's trying to show that they're doing something, but doing what?

tell us what. They would tell us what we're doing right. So, like doing what the heck are we doing? They have no studies. I read one study, uh, where the only sharks that would die and were spinner sharks, uh all but, and it was conducted down in uh texas somewhere, and it's the only land-based uh study I could find you know. So tell us why you're doing it and what you're trying to achieve and, uh, what you're saving, because you know recreational anglers they're. They're open to save anything. You know I mean, you know that as well as I do. Um, we will, we'll do whatever we have to do, but give us a reason this to me to say you can't use a drone to drop a bait. Well, is it better to drop the bait shorter to bring the shark in closer, or is it uh better and it's gonna make it harder for you to catch?

it's almost like they don't want you to land the fish and it's not because they don't want to see them now if they don't want that fish making it to the shore, so the the smaller hook size, the lighter tackle, the leader that can most likely break off. Uh, you know, the inability to kayak or use a drone. All of those things amount to one thing that fish is not going to make it to the shore. And the people that are sitting three hundred yards down in their time you, but how much as well for a lot better. Uh, they don't have to tell us anything. They're going to do what they want to do if we don't put up a fight, and they're going to be able to tell people in a press release we have changed the fishing regulations in a chance to try to make things better for everybody. They're not going to tell us, they're going to do to us. They're going to tell everybody else that may not be as educated as we are about fish. They're going to tell them this is what we have done for you.

Yeah yeah, no, that's exactly what's going to happen. Well, look, I hope it doesn't. I wish we had a couple of legislators on those calls, although they were recorded and I have reached out to a few people to listen to them, because you need a legislator at this point to step in and say, whoa, what's going on? Let's just put the brakes on for a second and take a look at this thing. But I've seen this happen time and again and it just seems like it's so far advanced and look, I'm not trying to knock the ec here, but you know they sent us a signal not too long ago. When you know they put in those emergency regs on striped bass. They could have waited and given us and when I say what us, I talk the entire industry a couple of days a week, something. Not bang, it's over, but it seems, you know, like nobody, like Cuomo back in the day. But I tell you what that guy. He loved fishermen, he was a fisherman, he always took care of us, and now we have the total opposite and you're gonna find out I think it's next week or the week after they're gonna ask you for a fishing license, so they're gonna ask you to pay to not be able to catch those sharks. That's what's coming, what's coming next week. So they will actually survey.

Well, if I'm not mistaken, the slot just to go into the striped bass a little bit that the slot size or this new slot size we have that came from up above, that came from the Atlantic States fishery across the board, correct?

Yes, that had to be done.

When you think about that, you say to yourself you know, at least we're not the only ones, at least it's not New York overstepping its boundaries, at least it's not the New York fishermen alone that are gonna save striped bass for the whole country. Right In the case, what they have now that the EEC wants to do, it's just us, it's just the few guys in New York that are on the beach. It's just for us.

So how long do you guys, how long is your season?

Well, we go. I pretty much go from, I would say, you know, the opening of the season in spring and I probably fish all the way into October, november. The kids started getting a little chilly in November. I mean, they're pretty good, but you know I don't want to catch colds. We go well into the fall and then we wrap it up and then we take all the tackle out in the middle of the winter and just hold it and just dream about us getting back on the beach there.

Yeah, yeah, and I'm sure you're spending on tackle and just like everybody else.

Well, just like everybody else and the guy in the bait shop is gonna feel it when you know his three to 500 guys a month come in and all spend $15 or $20 less.

Well, you know, I've spoken to six different tackle shop owners on this issue and they don't get. Nobody gets it. No one gets it. No, no, you know, and it kind of feels like you know, it's one of these things that are gonna ramp down on the roads. I'm hoping that they don't and you know who knows for sure. But you know, when you got groups and I'm not trying to knock anybody, because you know I know everybody involved in these organizations but you know we've become so micro, these groups, that you actually have surf fishermen that are agreeing with this, but in most cases they're surf fishermen that have never done it before and they find you getting in the way. So you know, I understand what's happening. It's like you get all of a sudden Liby is in support of I don't believe that they are, by the way, but as far as the coalition, they do, so they are supportive of the rules. Who are they talking to and who do they represent? I'm not buying. Anyone represents 5,000 people. I don't buy it.

No, I don't believe they have our best interests at heart.

Yeah, yeah, and you know what. Liby, bill and Nicky was a great friend of mine. He's gone. And Willie Young, who started coalition he was a good friend of mine, always meant well, these guys. And now we have people sitting on the Emmerich committee and guys I'm not knocking you, but you're like lifelong freaking politicians. You know you remind me of the Nancy Pelosi's of the world you've been around forever. It's time to start listening to the anglers that are on the beach and you know that might be worth a shot. I think I'm gonna put some up on our website. Mention something later in this podcast with direct emails to the people on Emmerich who will have a huge say in what happens here. And you know there's one of them there, charlie Widdick, who is a good friend of mine. A lot of people you know they don't like his. I don't know his management style, but I got to wonder if he is in support of this. You know he's a smart guy and anyone knows lighter tackle right, smaller hook is going to result in more dead sharks. It's just a fact. That's correct. You know so well, look, I again. You know I'm sorry for what you guys are going through. Next time, you know, maybe you need to somehow be better organized, but I wouldn't give up yet, and-.

No, I'm not giving up. If you put anything on that, if you list anything, I'll be making phone calls of my own. You know, to try to do whatever I can do. I don't want to see it rubber-stamped without a fight.

Well, I appreciate that, because a lot of people they don't want to fight and sometimes they have to, and you know what? It's not a fight, maybe it's just an education thing. I think I know I'm taken by surprise by the amount of support that you guys are getting, considering the people that are opposed to it. You know that. Rather that, support it. So, yeah, yeah, I think you got a shot, an outside shot, but I need someone to say well, we're killing it, they can't say it. They can't say it because it's not happening. It's all about perception.

I asked repeatedly yeah, I've asked repeatedly for the data. I need the data to support your proposals and it just falls on deaf ears over and over. I've called it the. You see it does at times. Where's the data? Where is the data? Where's the data? We don't have the data, Just that's it, no data.

Yeah.

They're doing this for the people on the beach. They're not doing it for anybody else. It's the elephant in the room. The shark sightings, the shark sightings, the shark sightings. Oh, what do we got? We got a few hundred anglers. They're fishing for sharks. They're bringing them in. You know, the sharks are there. The bait is there. You know we're seeing more black tips. We're seeing the cobia I got some cobia in the back bay last year. The fish are there. Yeah, the fish are there. And you know what? The bait is certainly there and the water is cleaner. You're talking to a person who has spent 26 years working cleaning water in one of the biggest wastewater treatment plants in New York. The water is clean. We're doing everything and everybody is the recipient of this. You've got people enjoying the water from a number of different ways From the beach, from the boat, scuba, a lot of water-based recreational sports and the one guy that pays the price is the guy that schleps out his beach caught onto the beach. He's the guy that has to pay for it. That's not fair.

No, it is not, and hopefully we've got the EC listening and you know they'll get that. You're not just speaking for yourself. I know you had a bunch of friends and you guys probably all know each other. You know kind of like tuna fishing men that are sharing things. You know you have your little group there but it doesn't take that many people. But you've got to be vocal and you've got to plug in to the right people. So we'll be in touch. I have your number now. You have my number now and I really appreciate you coming on Because I wanted that side of it and, believe me, it's my pleasure. I've been doing this for 35 years, so it's been. But let me tell you we've had a lot of close wins but so many losses. But we have three big wins right. One was maximum 20 fish blackfish limit commercial that's still holding tight and the strike bass limit they are not allowed to take commercially over a million pounds and the bunker bill which we passed. So things can get done because all legislators listen.

So we're going to get them involved. You put that information out there and I'm sure myself and quite a lot of other people we'll make the necessary calls. They're going to hear us. We're going to go down with the best fight possible. But this is everybody needs to know that this is really the beginning of the end for shore bass fishermen, because what they want to do is not going to work and then they're going to just keep clamping down further and further until it's over.

Yeah, sadly, I agree, and there's no need for it. There's got to be a way, like you said. Maybe I mean, look, I don't know anything about it, but maybe you limit it to a night fishery or something, or hours of people are not on the beach.

You can go out there and fish and use the equipment that you're accustomed to using, but you got to use it when the lifeguards are off duty, right, because when the lifeguards are off duty, you shouldn't be in that water anyway.

Right, that's true.

So when the lifeguards are there, you're mandated to use a certain hook size and do as the mandate says. But once those lifeguards are not there, you can fish a little bit more freely. They should try something before just ramming it down off the boat, because it is not going to work and you're going to give people a false sense of security by doing this and then they're going to go in that water and if there is an interaction with the shark, it's not going to have anything to do with anybody, just the way it doesn't have to do with us. Now, right, you're mandating us, you're hurting us, you're depriving us, you're regulating us and at the same time, you're selling a false sense of security to the beachgoer about sharks.

Well, I'll give you an example of that the woman who got bit. What was it two days ago In Rockaway? There's no surf fishing there. There's nobody. Shark in there None, not a single person. I already checked that there are no shark fishermen there.

I looked at that too. I was wondering, and some feedback we got the people exchanging information. Afterwards there weren't any fishermen anywhere. No, if you're doing this to us just to tell everybody it's safe to go into the water, that's not right. You can go into the water, be mindful of your lifeguards, follow what the flags say. But if you see me 100 yards down, I'm not doing anything. See, I'm just minding my business, trying to have a good time with my kids.

Exactly, and enjoy what I mean. We live on an island. Enjoy our coast, people. That's how I feel. You pay all this money to live here. That's what it's all about. Oh yeah, so all right, anthony, great speaking with you. We will be in touch and I wish you nothing but the best.

You too, my friend, Be well. Thank you for this opportunity.

Yes, thank you. Well, that wraps up another episode of the New York Fishing Podcast. Please be sure to check off that subscribe button, so this way you know you're notified each time that a new episode comes out. Also, be sure to stop by nyanglercom. We have many real good Sharpie anglers that are willing to help and assist in any questions you may have about fishing here in New York. Again, thank you all for joining and until next time. Tight lines all.